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Post by Juan on May 11, 2015 16:16:04 GMT -6
Juan . Your Yamaha already has a secondary charging circuit built in, it does the same as a VSR. I don't know if it would be sufficient to charge the trolling motor batteries but it will do the house battery. You sure? First I've heard of that. I have a 2 bank onboard charger that charges the trolling motor batteries and another that charges the start and house batteries... the start battery doesn't really need charging after running the motor but the house battery does since all the electronics are hooked to it and that battery isn't being charged by the motor like the start battery is. Tell me more... if this is true, I can take out one of the on board chargers and put it in the bass boat.
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Post by gnrphil on May 11, 2015 17:20:28 GMT -6
Look down by the bottom cowling near the fuse bix, you should find a red wire the a plug and a blanking plug on it. This is for the auxiliary charging circuit , look up on a yamaha parts site for wire lead isolater . I made my own.
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Post by Juan on May 11, 2015 18:05:33 GMT -6
Found this picture... I'll look for it tomorrow and then try to figure out how to hook it to the the house battery. Thanks beerchug .. never too old to learn something new.
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Post by gnrphil on May 11, 2015 18:13:52 GMT -6
I just used some 8 or 6 gauge wire fused it with a 50 amp fuse, then ran a negative wire across to the starting battery from the house battery . Good to go.
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Post by CaptWoody on May 12, 2015 8:30:16 GMT -6
Some things are still good the old fashion way. Like blue bell ice cream? ...... Yes, Blue Bell, that is what I was thinking of. Sure. Lol
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Post by CaptWoody on May 12, 2015 8:33:30 GMT -6
Look down by the bottom cowling near the fuse bix, you should find a red wire the a plug and a blanking plug on it. This is for the auxiliary charging circuit , look up on a yamaha parts site for wire lead isolater . I made my own. That is interesting. I've not heard of it, but I have Mercs. Juan I just expect the VSR to give a supplemental charge while underway, I don't expect it to replace a proper recharge at the end of the day.
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Post by gnrphil on May 12, 2015 16:25:26 GMT -6
From what I understand It senses which battery requires a charge first then shares the charge between both as required.
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Post by CaptWoody on May 12, 2015 19:06:18 GMT -6
From what I understand It senses which battery requires a charge first then shares the charge between both as required. That isn't exactly correct. It measures the voltage on the primary battery. When the primary is sufficiently charged that the voltage increases to 13.2 volts the VSR then engages and shares the charge between both primary and secondary batteries. It continually monitors the voltage on the primary battery and when it senses the voltage had dropped to 12.7 volts (usually after the engine has stopped) on the primary battery it disengages and no longer sends a charge to the secondary battery until voltage again increases to 13.2 volts. This disengagement prevents the discharging of the secondary battery (usually the trolling battery) from draining the primary battery, which is usually the starting battery. It also allows any surplus output from the alternator to top off the trolling battery while underway, but only after the starting battery had been sufficiently recharged. The actual make/break voltage may vary between manufacturers but the concept is the same.
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Post by gnrphil on May 12, 2015 22:09:05 GMT -6
That's interesting nut we have some confusion, I have a starting battery and a house battery no tolling motor batteries . The Yamaha system is designed to charge these and not trolling batteries, the two batteries ate only connected with a ground in order to ground the house circuit through the motor. I assume one battery could not drain the other this way.
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Post by Juan on May 13, 2015 5:19:17 GMT -6
I don't know ANYTHING about the VSR other than what I've read here and on the web, and to add to the confusion, I think you're both right. Best I can tell, the VSR on my motor (Yamaha) will charge two batteries. A 12 volt starting battery and a 12 volt house battery or 12 volt trolling motor battery. I'm not sure if the second battery will charge after the starting battery is charged or at the same time but it seems logical that it will charge only after the important (start) battery is fully charged. I'm also not sure if it will charge the start battery and a 24 volt trolling motor set up. Either way, with no more running time than I do, I don't think the other battery (house or trolling motor) will get enough of a charge to keep it fully charged so I'll continue to recharge them with the onboard charger.
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Post by freezerfiller on May 13, 2015 5:57:59 GMT -6
That is great info gnrphil! I bet there are a lot of people that don't know they have that feature... Yeah, I think different systems work for different folks. I spend a lot of down time/trolling motor time with accessories on, like radio, livewell, Fishfinder, and many times overnight with the livewell, anchor light and bubbler all hooked to the house battery, so It's nice to know that I will still have plenty of juice on the cranking battery which only has the engine hooked up. I still have to use an onboard charger for the T/M batteries however.
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Post by gnrphil on May 13, 2015 6:06:33 GMT -6
This system is new to me and the majority of my boat usage is a 20 min ride to the beach at the moment (until I figure out this fishing thing), I'll see how the batteries hold up over the next month or so. It seems to be doing well right now though.
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Post by gnrphil on May 13, 2015 6:13:39 GMT -6
That is great info gnrphil! I bet there are a lot of people that don't know they have that feature... Yeah, I think different systems work for different folks. I spend a lot of down time/trolling motor time with accessories on, like radio, livewell, Fishfinder, and many times overnight with the livewell, anchor light and bubbler all hooked to the house battery, so It's nice to know that I will still have plenty of juice on the cranking battery which only has the engine hooked up. I still have to use an onboard charger for the T/M batteries however. Thanks, I like to share what I've learned if it can help someone. Yes there are a lot of people who don't know they have it, I read about people adding a second battery with a Blue Seas "add a battery kit" all the time when all they are doing is buying equipment they already have.
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Post by Juan on May 13, 2015 17:07:31 GMT -6
It is good to know information. I didn't know I had one and I'd have bought one. Is this just a Yamaha thing or do other engines also have a VSR? I may hook mine up one day just because it's there. Couldn't hurt and if it charges the house battery well enough, I'll have a spare onboard charger I could use on the other bote.
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Post by gnrphil on May 13, 2015 17:37:13 GMT -6
I have no idea about other manufacturers. I like the idea that I know both batteries are being charged. I didn't have two batteries when I bought the boat so it was a good way ad one without needing a switch.
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Post by Juan on May 13, 2015 17:50:59 GMT -6
Are both of your batteries fully charged at the end of the day?
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Post by gnrphil on May 13, 2015 19:55:28 GMT -6
So far yes, I'll take a meter out next weekend and check them when i get back in for an accurate reading. But i haven't had a problem yet.
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Post by CaptWoody on May 14, 2015 5:06:26 GMT -6
That's interesting nut we have some confusion, I have a starting battery and a house battery no tolling motor batteries . The Yamaha system is designed to charge these and not trolling batteries, the two batteries ate only connected with a ground in order to ground the house circuit through the motor. I assume one battery could not drain the other this way. Although I'm not familiar with the Yamaha system what you describe sounds correct. I like that setup, and you would have no need for a VSR. I like the second battery for a house battery too.
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yolo
Ensign
Posts: 626
Location: Back to Manasquan Inlet, NJ
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Post by yolo on May 14, 2015 12:44:05 GMT -6
This is good info phil, thanks for sharing. How did you find out about this? Article/owners manual? I would love to read more about it if you can share the source.
I was about to put the blue sea add a battery (isolator switch with the ACR) in my uncles 238, he has an F225 on it. I would love to know a bit more and maybe save him the money. The only concern I want to check on is if the house will provide starting charge in case the starting goes (concern being starting and stopping the motor while fishing). The switch that comes in this pack is on/off and the it keeps the motor and electronics separated, but has an emergency switch to use both batteries (meaning the house in case the starting went dead for whatever reason).
If it does then i can send this add a battery package back.
Also, it sounds like there is a little bit of a difference between the ACR and VSR. I thought they were the same exact thing just different names from different companies, but from what I'm reading on the forum here I guess they are a bit different. And, full disclosure, i don't know anything about the VSR wiring specs so it may be applicable to what i am about to say.
The ACR that blue sea has out is like you had described phil, if wired that way. The ACR that blue sea has out is also like captwoody described, if wired that way.
If you are using a battery switch then it would works as phil noted. Power output (charge) from a charging source goes into the switch and then is distributed through the switch to two different points (positives on each battery). ACR is wired with separate wires to each point on the switch (or battery but switch is easier) detects when either of the batteries reaches a certain charge (don't remember specific number off the top of my head), then ACR connects (circuit closes) and shares that charge with and to the other battery. The alternator on my boat is 60 amps so power goes to each batter at 30amps, when one battery gets to certain voltage (13.5 for the ACR i think) then it combines and shares whatever power that load connected to that battery is not using. Example: If my house battery reaches charge first, and if my electronics are are drawing 5amps then the house battery would get 55amps through the ACR. Once they reach full charge, the alternator and the ACR will work together to float them (at a lower current supply) and they are maintained at 14.4 volts or so.
If you are not using a battery switch or want to charge two separated banks then the ACR (and VSR from what capt woody has said) will be wired in line and charge the second battery after one reaches full charge. Example: Your wiring flow goes alternator --> battery 1 --> ACR/VSR --> Battery Two. Power output (charge) from the alternator into battery one and charges that first. No charge goes to the second battery because the ACR circuit has not connected (closed) so it cannot send power. Once battery 1 has reached a voltage telling the ACR to connect the second battery is then supplied power. The downfall to this setup is that once the voltage drops the batteries are isolated (ACR opens) and the second battery cannot be used to start the motor in case of emergency.
Once you turn the motor off, the presence of >12.7 volts vanishes and the ACR/VSR will disconnect (circuit will open) and the batteries are no longer sharing power (whether it be charge or discharge). Thats why you do not need gigantic wires to connect the ACR to the battery, all it supplies is 60amps worth of power and disconnects when the alternator shuts down so it does not transfer any cranking amps from one batt to another (my motor cranking amps are close to 1000)
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Post by gnrphil on May 14, 2015 13:46:33 GMT -6
www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/service/manuals/2003/lit-18626-05-00_441.pdfPage 4-28 For combining the batteries to start you could use a selector switch,just disconnect the starting cables and move over,carry a set of jump cables or carry one of those small lightweight jump packs like I do. I learned of it in the manual then read more about it on THT. I made my own cable rather than buy the Yamaha one.
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