Sea Pro Newbie help please

[SupaDave]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for the add. Great Site. Retired Firefighter/Medic looking for a project and I think I definitely found one. LOL

Just got a 2005 CC1900SV with a 115HP Yami on back. No owner to speak to, so have a few questions. Took her out for lake trial, motor runs OK but could not get livewells to fill. Livewell pump valve appears to be in open position ( I hope it's open, cause theres no way I'm able to move that sucka ) and livewell pump runs, ( see pic ) but underway rear well would only fill to cover bottom of well, front well didn't fill at all. Attached pix of livewell pump/bilge area maybe someone recognizes. Also, have some drain holes in stern that I have no idea what they go to. If someone could explain how to operate these livewells in basic terms, that would b great. Would appreciate any help/advice anyone is willing to give. Thanks, Dave

[Juan]

Welcome to the forum Dave and congrats on the Sea Pro. beerchug

The live well issue could be one of several things:

The brass cut off valve looks to be in the open position but the pickup under the hull could possibly be stopped up. Since you said the wells don't fill when under way, it sounds like a blockage. WD40 or something similar sprayed on the valve levers and then working them slowly up and down sometimes will break them loose.
The pump could still run if the impeller were worn out or not turning.
In addition to the brass valves in the bilge, there are valves located in the live well. If these aren't in the "on" position, water won't enter the wells either under way or when you run the pump.
If those are open, I'd pull a pump, (the pump cartridge should twist out) check to see if the impeller is turning, then put a water hose to the outlet to see if it exits out the pick up under the hull.
I believe two of the outside drain holes on the stern are drains for the livewell overflow. You might check those by putting the hose to them too and seeing where the water enters.

[yessnoo]

Like Juan said the best way to figure it out is with a water hose for what drains are what.

I think the center drain hole is aft livewell main drain. left may be the left rear hatch drain. Not sure on the right. On my sv2100 forward livewell drains about 3/4 towards front on right side of boat at waterline. Front left fishbox/locker drains left side of boat waterline


EDIT: just checked my boat. I only have 2 drains on rear but mine is sv2100. My left rear drain is for left rear hatch drain. Center is aft livewell drain. Should be able to figure out pretty easy with a water hose. Good luck.

[tigerhead]

Livewell pump valve appears to be in open position ( I hope it's open, cause theres no way I'm able to move that sucka )

Supadave,

I would encourage you to pull that pump off of the sea valve and get that valve freed up.  Like Juan said, it is in the open position, which is where you want it in order to operate the livewell, but that makes for a potentially dangerous situation.  Here's why.  Most of those pumps are plastic.  The plastic nipple on the base of the pump that screws into that valve can easily crack through the threads.  I've seen two 2 do this in my time on the water.  If it should crack and break off, and you can't get that valve to operate, you could be in a serious fix. 

I was in a friend's boat in a heavy offshore chop when his pump snapped off.  Because we were running in a heavy chop, we didn't notice it had happened until the boat started bogging down with the weight of the water in the bilge.  When we opened a hatch in the floor, the water was up to the bottom of the deck already. We were able to feel around and find the valve and get it closed.  If we wouldn't have been able to operate the seacock, I believe we would have sunk the boat.  We could not get the boat back on a plane because of the weight.  And with that valve in the open position we would have pushed more water in through the water pickup had we tried to run and pull the plug to let the water drain out.  Our only hope was the bilge pump but it was barely keeping up with the water flowing in.  Since that time I always make sure my valve will move freely, I run a bilge pump with an automatic float switch, and if the room in the bilge allows, I have a second bilge pump.

When I bought my Sea Pro that valve was frozen in the open position. I pulled the pump and there was a crusty deposit in the valve that had it locked up.  Some WD 40 and a little elbow grease and the valve worked like new in 5 minutes.  It's tough to get to, but well worth the effort in my opinion.  

[Juan]

Tigerhead brings an excellent point. emthup By all means, get the valve unstuck. I had to unstick both of mine and glad I did because as tiger said.. the pumps are plastic and WILL break. One of mine cracked during the winter on one of the very few days it freezes around here. While fishing, luckily my friend asked "why is that water running out the side of the boat?" Shut the valve off and was good until I could replace the pump but could have been a bad day had the valve not closed.

[SupaDave]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. My first boat with built in livewells. As I understand it, the "sea valve" is installed at the factory? and the livewell pump is mounted on top of it. The pump looks like it has a plastic nipple to attach to valve. Mine looks like it has a bunch of crud, dirt etc. where the nipple goes into the pump and may be frozen into valve. I'm a little hesitant to try to remove pump from valve for fear of breaking off that plastic nipple and the volley of curse words and tool throwing that might follow. That said, going out this morning with the hose and gonna pull the pump cartridge. Will advise. BTW Where do ya'll get the cool smileys?

[Juan]

Good luck. Hopefully, it's just gunk.
The smiley button is in the tool bar at the top of the reply box. giggled

[SupaDave]

Tigerhead-

Thanx for the reply. You mentioned in your post " I pulled the pump" in order to get to the ball valve and free it up. Can I ask how exactly did you pull the pump? I have tried unscrewing the pump off the valve but it wont budge. Tried backwards and forwards to get some give, but no go. Scared to use too much force and break that plastic pump nipple off in the pump. Did you get a wrench on it, heat it up, or ?

Thanx,

Dave.

[tigerhead]

I had to contort my body into a position it hasn't been in since I dated a gymnast in college, 47 years ago!  But once I got there, and was able to get a good grip on the pump, it broke loose and screwed right out.  Typically a plastic nipple will easily back out of a brass fitting.  But I think the crusty stuff in your pic may be a thread sealant of some sort.  You would hope they used a non hardening teflon based sealant or something similar that is recommended for plastic, but who knows.  The previous owner could have used 5 minute epoxy for all you know.  Try picking at it to see how hard it is.  That may give you some idea of what you are up against.

As far as applying heat goes, plastic expands more than brass.  So if you apply heat evenly to both materials, the plastic may seize up even tighter.  However, brass conducts heat better/faster than plastic.  So if you could apply heat to the brass while shielding the plastic, it could help.  The biggest obstacle is where you have to work.  A heat gun in the bilge with gasoline vapors is a no-go.  

I think I would try to pull the pump cartridge and introduce some type of lubricant to the valve through the pump base.  If you can get some oil in there and start working the valve handle, it may break free.   

[Juan]

Echo what tiger said. It took a lot of elbow grease, but mine eventually unscrewed. Do what tiger suggested and spray WD40 inside the pump base and on the lever...if you're lucky you may not have to remove the base to free the lever.

[SupaDave]

OK. Spent about 3 hours today. WD 40 and penetrating blaster on the handle at valve. Pulled cartridge and sprayed blaster and wd 40 into base of pump onto ball. After what seemed like hours of jogging handle back and forth, Seemed like I was able to move the handle slightly more than when I began, but then I thought.... what if I'm just wallerin out the slot in the handle that fits over the seacock shaft. Pulled the handle off and got a pair of vise grips on the flats of the seacock shaft and...….. would not budge. I'm thinkin now that even if I were to get that handle moving or get the pump off, I would be worried "did I possibly crack that damn plastic nipple or some other plastic part I can't see?" Will let it soak overnite with the blaster and try again in AM. But seriously considering dragging it over to the shop and have them replace the sea cock and pump. That way I know it will be right and no leaks. Is that a common repair a large boat shop could handle? Any idea on $? And Tiger, I note your comment about gas fumes in the bilge. Wow! I was almost hesitant to put an incandescent shop light in there! Is that normal? Once again, thanks all for taking the time to answer a rookies questions. Dave

[tigerhead]

And Tiger, I note your comment about gas fumes in the bilge. Wow! I was almost hesitant to put an incandescent shop light in there! Is that normal?

Supadave,

Is what normal?  Gas fumes in your bilge, or being cautious in the bilge?  Gas vapors in the bilge should be considered an abnormal condition for an outboard boat.  I had vapors in the bilge of my boat when I first got it.  Turned out I had a leaking fill hose.  Caution in the bilge, with or without the presence of gas vapors, should be your normal operating mode, IMO.  It's an enclosed space with a gas tank sitting in the middle of it.  If you have to do spark producing work in the bilge, you should be sure  it is well ventilated.  That's why inboards or inboard/outboards have blowers installed in the bilge.  I saw a guy blow the transom off of a sportfisherman by attempting to start the engine without first turning on his blower.

You're smart to be cautious with an incandescent light.  Incandescent bulbs have started many a fire or explosion.  That's why an incandescent light that is designed to be used as a "work light" usually has a protective cage around it.  But an incandescent bulb is only going to ignite gasoline vapors if you break it in an explosive atmosphere.  It's not hot enough to ignite gas vapors when it's intact.   But my comment was in reference to using a heat gun that has a glowing red heating element.  It's essentially like a glow plug.   That thing will light off diesel under the right conditions.  I prefer using a battery powered LED light in the bilge.  They make some pretty good ones that are cheap and much safer than an incandescent light.  Plus you can't burn your arm on one. 

That way I know it will be right and no leaks.

Piece of mind is worth a lot.  But if you have it in you to give it another try, you may as well go for broke before taking it to a shop.  I would put a pair of channel locks on that pump and go for it.  If I remember correctly, just breaking my pump loose also broke the valve loose.  Then it was just a matter of some oil and exercise and I had the valve working like new.  If the nipple breaks off in the valve, try unscrewing the valve from the water scoop.  The valve handle or the entire valve can be replaced.  That's all the shop is going to do.  The shops in my area are probably $100/hr or more.  After they mark up the pump and valve, I'm guessing you may get it done for $300?  Just a guess.  Then again, they may put a high school kid working on a job like that.  He may even damage the nipple on the scoop.  Then you're looking at a lot more $.  My motto is: If anybody is going to break anything around here, it's going to be me.....LOL.  Good luck man.  Either way you go, getting it fixed is definitely the right move.

[mosquito13]

Here is a good visual on the removal of the Johnson Cartridge pump.

 

[gtightline]

All this talk of seacocks got me to thinking...I went out into the garage and took a look at the one through hull fitting that I have below the water line, it is the live well pump that goes directly through the hull (transom), slightly below the waterline..it supplies the livewell...I noticed the pump went right through the hull with the tip of the pipe protected by the hard wire mesh basket on outside of transom...this is a Rule pump, and has no seacock connected to it, that I can see...Am I missing something here, or should the pump have a seacock inline before the pump...is it possible that when the pump is not in use that it is designed to stop water intrusion if it develops...I have owned the boat since new and had never had a problem...now I'm curious and somewhat concerned...can anybody familiar with this enlighten me please....The boat is a 1998 180CC...thanks folks.

[gnrphil]

Sept 23, 2019 7:24:48 GMT -6 gtightline said:

All this talk of seacocks got me to thinking...I went out into the garage and took a look at the one through hull fitting that I have below the water line, it is the live well pump that goes directly through the hull (transom), slightly below the waterline..it supplies the livewell...I noticed the pump went right through the hull with the tip of the pipe protected by the hard wire mesh basket on outside of transom...this is a Rule pump, and has no seacock connected to it, that I can see...Am I missing something here, or should the pump have a seacock inline before the pump...is it possible that when the pump is not in use that it is designed to stop water intrusion if it develops...I have owned the boat since new and had never had a problem...now I'm curious and somewhat concerned...can anybody familiar with this enlighten me please....The boat is a 1998 180CC...thanks folks.

On your system some water will find it's way through the pump into the hoses but would have to overcome gravity to find it's way above the water line, that being said you absolutely should have a seacock installed after the through hull, if a hose splits or the pump breaks there's nothing to stop the water.

[gnrphil]

Dave, I'd recommend replacing the valve/seacock with a new one at this point. You could probably handle that yourself.

[985crabs]

Hmmm... I think I'm set up like GTightline...

If I had a valve down there and it (or something else) broke while at sea, I don't know that I'd be able to reach it to close it.

What's a man to do?

[Juan]

I'd certainly have a shut off valve / seacock as a safety factor on anything that goes offshore. As already stated, without the valve, if the pump or a hose below the water line breaks and the bilge pump isn't working or can't keep up with the inflow, you could sink ... That being said, every bass boat I've ever owned (and my Carolina Skiff) are set up like gtightline's 180CC and I've never had an issue. Maybe I've just been lucky.

[tigerhead]

I went out into the garage and took a look at the one through hull fitting that I have below the water line, it is the live well pump that goes directly through the hull (transom), slightly below the waterline..it supplies the livewell

So I mentioned that I had seen 2 pump necks fail.  The one I talked about had a seacock.  The other one was in a setup like this.  The pump suction went through the hull at the transom and was a plastic all-thread nipple.  The problem with that one was that the pump was laying horizontal and was not screwed down.  This was on a brand new 26ft boat with three livewells, so it was a large pump.  When they tightened the through hull fitting in the transom, it actually raised the pump feet off the deck about an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch.  So every wave you hit flexed that plastic all thread nipple.  First trip offshore it fatigued and snapped.  We tied off to the first rig of the day and after a minute or so the bilge pump kicks on.  That's when we found the broken fitting.  Fortunately we weren't using the livewells, so we just stuffed a rag in the hole and went on fishing.  If it had been hooked to a water scoop that was difficult to access in the bilge, we might have been in a bind. 


That day taught me to keep an assortment of rubber plugs that fit all of my drain fittings that come through the side of my hull or transom.  It's funny how many good ideas come from bad ideas, like a manufacturer not anchoring a pump.

[985crabs]

Sept 23, 2019 12:13:03 GMT -6 tigerhead said:

That day taught me to keep an assortment of rubber plugs that fit all of my drain fittings that come through the side of my hull or transom.  It's funny how many good ideas come from bad ideas, like a manufacturer not anchoring a pump.

So, it that the answer then, plugs from the outside in case of emergency? If the pump can crack off just think what would happen if a scupper fitting broke. Those don't appear to have valves on them. I guess I'm going to do like Tiger says and get a plug for everything.